Therapy For Your Money

Episode 128: Why your intake coordinator should be a sales person - Part 2 (with Niki Ramirez)

• James Marland

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During this podcast episode, the hosts discuss the shifting mindset from viewing intake coordinators strictly as administrative support to seeing them as essential salespeople in mental health practices. By redefining the role, conversion rates can increase, benefiting the practice and the clients.  When it comes to putting the right person in the role, it's important to hire someone with a sales mindset capable of tackling tasks like efficient follow-ups and exploring all possible patient options while still being likable and relational.  

Three questions this episode will answer are:

  • What are some past jobs to look for when hiring an intake coordinator
  • What are some jobs that might not be a good fit for experience (it's not what you think)
  • What are some of the skills to look for when hiring an intake coordinator

Timeline:

  • 00:04 Introduction and Welcome
  • 00:50 Guest Introduction: Niki Ramirez
  • 01:37 The Role of an Intake Coordinator in Therapy
  • 04:31 The Importance of Sales Skills in Intake Coordination
  • 07:57 Identifying Potential Candidates for Intake Coordinator
  • 15:51 Structuring the Job Description and Compensation
  • 25:05 Encouraging People to Think About a Carrot in Any Industry
  • 25:34 Favorite Business Book and Its Impact
  • 26:36 Connecting with HR Answers
  • 27:08 Introducing the Concept of Intake Coordinator as a Salesperson
  • 27:52 The Role of Business Development Manager at Green Oak Accounting
  • 28:37 Changing the Perception of Sales in the Industry
  • 35:36 The Importance of Persistence in Sales
  • 38:29 Potential Sales Positions for Intake Coordinators
  • 40:29 Compensation Structures for Sales Positions
  • 44:07 Addressing Ethical Concerns About Sales in Therapy Practices
  • 46:36 Wrapping Up the Discussion and Looking Forward to the Next Episode

Guest Resources

Links and Resources


Podcast Production and Show Notes by Course Creation Studio



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Julie Herres:

You're listening to Therapy for Your Money, a podcast about all things, money and finance for therapy practice owners. If you want to feel confident and in control of your financial life, then you've come to the right spot. I'm your host, Julie Herres. I'm an accountant and the owner of Green Oak Accounting. My firm specializes in working with private practices across the US and my team and I have worked with hundreds of private practice owners. I'm on a mission to share all the best practices I've learned along the way. Because I want you to have a profitable private practice. My new book, profit First for Therapists is available at most online retailers. You can get it in paperback, audiobook, or ebook as well. Go check it out. Hello everyone. And welcome to therapy for your money. So today I am chatting with the one and only Nikki Ramirez from HR answers. Um, Nikki and I, we, we host a joint, uh, Q and a each month in the group practice exchange. And I must admit every month, I really look forward to that session because First, I always learn something. Um, I also really enjoy Nikki's company and I also find that our knowledge is really complimentary. So I have kind of the tax and accounting side, Nikki tackles the HR side, and it's just a really nice compliment, uh, to each other. So Nikki, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for being here.

Niki Ramirez:

Uh, Julie, thanks for that introduction and thanks for the invitation. The feelings are absolutely mutual. Oh,

Julie Herres:

thank you. All the love going on over here. A lot. Um, so Nikki and I are talking today about, uh, this is part two of our series of why your intake coordinator should be a salesperson or why you should think of them as a salesperson. Uh, so last week we talked. Uh, with Sarah Riley, who is a really a salesperson. So I'm excited to get your HR take on this Nikki, uh, because you and your team work with a lot, a lot of therapy, private practices as well. Um, so let's just jump right in. Like, why do you think this intake coordinator as a salesperson, why this structure can be in service to clients who are seeking

Niki Ramirez:

therapy? Yeah, that's such a good place to start. So, you know, when we think about organizational structure. We need to ensure that we build positions that help us accomplish our mission, right? And so if we're thinking about the intake coordinator type role as a member of this team serving our larger mission, we need somebody who is attracting and securing business for the practice. So, you know, and that person is someone who is literally there to help us achieve our mission, to get services to the community so that people's well being is. Handled. Yeah. And

Julie Herres:

really when someone is calling your practice, it's because they have a needs, they, they're not calling because they're kind of sort of maybe thinking about therapy. So, well, maybe sometimes they are, but most of the time there are many steps like as a consumer of therapy, right? I can tell you, like you have thought about a lot of different things, who am, what kind of person am I looking for? What's going to be convenient? Where should I go? Right. All of those things. Really, it is in service to the client to actually get them scheduled when they reach out to your practice.

Niki Ramirez:

Yeah, yeah, most of the practice owners that we, um, work with and support, they are literally on a mission to help their communities be well. And so, a team member that can be that first point of contact that understands that to your really good point, um, most people who are consumers of mental health care do a little bit of research first. They figure out sort of where is the practice located, what is the practice's overarching philosophy and therapy, what sort of specialized services might they provide. And so by the time, uh, an individual calls and gets this intake coordinator on the phone, they are what we are in, in the world of sales, we call it a warm lead, right? So they're warm. They are here. And so they are, you know, it's not like we have, you know, a team of cold callers just out beating the street, trying to find new clients. These are people who want help and they've determined that your practice is a great place

Julie Herres:

to start. Yeah. And I definitely think that a cold caller would not do well in this space, right? Like, that's not at all, at all what we're talking about today, but yeah, you're right. Like that, that is a warm lead is a really good thing in the world of, um, of sales. Well, so, okay. Why do you think then that a sales minded person could be well suited for this intake position?

Niki Ramirez:

Yeah, so when we get this person on the phone who already knows that they are interested in mental health care, um, when we have someone who is sales minded in the role, then they will possess the skill set and be able to act on that skill set. In order to very quickly build trust and build a relationship that leads to the person on the other end of the line, booking a session, booking an intake. So, when we have someone who has the ability to identify the, the need that the person has expressed, so they're calling, and you know, maybe, maybe as an example for me, you know, I've called before and said, Hey, I'm looking for a place to go to therapy along with my husband, so couples therapy, right? Do you offer that? And they're like, Oh, yes, we do. We have a wonderful team of couples therapists to choose from. So, they're tuned in to what the caller, the, the, you know, the, the potential new client is expressing. Bye. And they are then able to identify that. Absolutely. Yes, this is something that we do. And a sales minded person is then interested and excited to share the service. That might be a wonderful match for the person who's called and that's where the service minded. Employee. Is so valuable to the practice because they have an interest in matching this person up with a service that we get paid for. And if you and I are never shy that we are grateful that people in the mental health industry that they are out there making money. Like, it's a, it's, it's an anchor in our communities. It's a valuable service and. They deserve to earn a profit.

Julie Herres:

Yes, they should. They absolutely should make money, make a profit. Like there's nothing, um, to be, there is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of there. And I think the way you've described that it's so interesting because I think of when someone is in solo practice, right, they're just working on their own. They are most often going to be the intake coordinator, right? So they, they approach that phone call from. That service mindset of, Oh, yes, I absolutely can help you, right? It's often not from a, we just need to get them scheduled, but yes, you are my ideal client. I can, I know I can help you get better. And that comes through, but what, again, just as a consumer, right? So this is my anecdotal experience as a consumer. And like, sometimes you will call and it's much more of a transactional conversation versus a service minded, right? I'm like, what's your insurance, blah, blah, blah. It's just a cold, uh, almost a cold trans transaction where it's not about like. How can we actually help? It's just about like checking the boxes and, and getting the information. Um, and if I am very honest, I have sometimes called back and said, you know what, actually, I'm going to cancel that appointment because I don't think that's, that's the right, um, that's the right fit for me. Uh,

Niki Ramirez:

especially not in this industry, right? So to your anecdotal advice and experience yesterday, I called because my check engine light came on in my fairly new And so I called the dealership and made an appointment and it was, it was friendly, but efficient and transactional. I expected nothing different.

Julie Herres:

You absolutely expect nothing different from the service, uh, you know, the service at your car dealership. But when you're calling and saying some, you know, I'm having this issue, I need help. That feels also very vulnerable. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So what kind of skills would a practice owner look for if they're, if they're interested in hiring someone with a, um, uh, who is sales minded?

Niki Ramirez:

So the skills that we are looking for our ability to be an excellent active listener. We are looking for people who are able to quickly task switch between listening to what the individual is sharing and then going and analyzing quickly what services we provide and who provides those services, perhaps even in our practice. So if someone is calling and asking about a specific type of care. Then we are, now we're switching to being the person who can go snatch up those details and communicate them back. So we're being great listeners, we're able to task switch quickly, so we're resourceful. We have a good eye on, you know, all of our resources within the business. And then we're able to communicate effectively back to the potential new client what their options are in a way that is influential. So tell me more about that. Yeah. Yeah. So. Influence the ability to influence as a person who has sales responsibility on the job is a key component of being successful. And what, you know, if I were advising a practice owner, I'm building out this position and, you know, maybe digging around for interview questions and things like that. I'd be saying, gosh. We need someone who has the ability to influence decision making. And we've already said in the beginning, in the opening of this podcast episode, uh, influencing someone to sign up for mental health care, it's a really valuable and, you know, what I would almost call just like an honorable exchange. You know, it's something that people deserve, they need, and gosh, they're on the phone with you, so let's get them lined up. So let's influence them to make the decision to book the intake. So influencing skills include the ability to reflect back what someone is saying. So I'm not going to be great at influencing you if I can't express to you that I know exactly what you want. So being a reflective communicator is important. And then the influencing skills also rely on a person who can come off as likable. So we are not often influenced by people who are not viewed as likable. Yeah, you're,

Julie Herres:

yeah, you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. Um, so if, uh, what, what people, uh, or what industries are, would be complimentary, um, for this.

Niki Ramirez:

Yeah, so, you know, when I'm thinking about hiring an intake coordinator for a role in a mental health practice, I am potentially looking for someone who does have a background in booking appointments in a service based industry. So I'm even remembering a time when we snatched up a receptionist who had some sales responsibilities in a really fancy hotel. And this person had just exceptional communication skills. And in that she supported the sales and events team. She had been through some training with a large corporation. And they had provided her with insight into what it took to have a great conversation with the lead to keep them on, you know, in the process so that they could nurture them down the road so that the sales and event coordinator could actually make the deal. Right. You know, so we might not find somebody that has industry experience, so they might come from hospitality. Um, they might be someone who comes from a school. Um, there's another example that I'm thinking of where we have an intake coordinator that worked in a social services department or sort of like community education for a school program. And they were the person who did all the enrollments for the people who are signing up for like summer school enrichment.

Julie Herres:

Sure. Yeah. So that is kind of a sales ish position, right? Where you're, you're getting, taking, taking, um, converting people into registrants. So interesting. Okay. What else?

Niki Ramirez:

Yeah, so hospitality, um, community service oriented organizations where there's revenue being generated. Okay. So that, yeah, so there has to be revenue. If it's a non profit, you know, that's okay as long as they're doing bookings and taking, you know, signing people up to make contributions or donations. Okay. So there's another, so a business development team member from a non profit might be an excellent snatch. You might be able to find somebody out there. Okay. Um, yeah, so, you know, I think those are some of the top three that I would be looking for. Okay. I do, I love people who've been trained in high level hospitality for literally any kind of job transition. Because they are in a position where they have been trained in communication, conflict resolution. Um, you know, just the, the general soft skills that make for a great intake coordinator, or just any kind of great service professional. So, if you can find someone that has worked it, let me. You know, a nice Marriott or Ritz Carlton, something like that. You can probably train them to do any job. They're going to have a soft skill set. That's probably second to none. Um,

Julie Herres:

what about someone coming from maybe a call center or something along those lines?

Niki Ramirez:

Yeah. You know, I don't think it's a bad fit as long as the individual is, um, interested in nurturing relationships along with these, you know, booking the intakes. So when we are. When we find that candidates are coming from a call center type environment, whether it's inbound calls or or they're cold calling, those are really high volume activities. And so. Although we want our practice owners to have high volume in their practice, the goal is to qualify the right people, um, to, to establish a long term relationship, not just book the next call, get an appointment scheduled, or take, you know, take the money on that call. So call center environment is much more hustle bustle, much more focused on getting the task completed. Then getting a new long term client signed up, and we know from a profitability perspective, we want our practices to have retention in place that helps them to be profitable. So if the call center, uh, if the person who's coming to us with call center experience is able to, during the interview and selection process, express to us and demonstrate that they have the ability to nurture long term professional relationships. Um, then that's, you know, that would be a key indicator that they might be a good fit.

Julie Herres:

Okay. So when we're thinking of resumes coming in, what are some of the specific things that you would be looking on for on those resumes?

Niki Ramirez:

Yeah. So I do of course, love when people have industry experience. So wow, wouldn't that be fantastic if someone came to you, right? Okay. Check that off. That's like our unicorn, right? Um, but I'm just generally speaking, I do think that people who have demonstrated longevity in any position come to the top of the pile. So let me just say that first. It doesn't matter what job you held for 4 years. If you held a job for 4 years, I probably want to talk to you. Okay. When we're screening for this intake coordinator type role, you know, I do want to kind of hold out and find a person that has. Demonstrated experience communicating one on one with potential clients or people who may do business with the company. So that could, again, this could be in a lot of different roles, industries, etc. But I want to, I want to entertain speaking with people who have experience with the public in a way that encourages them to come in and do business. Um, so what

Julie Herres:

are some items that could be included in a job description to find the right kind of person?

Niki Ramirez:

Yeah. So we're going to try to find some key language that loops back to the attributes that we talked about that we were looking for. So if I'm looking for someone who. Um, has the ability to quickly build trust and connection with potential new clients. I want to say that in the job posting. And then I want to also design interview questions that help me discover how the person has done that. Um, aside from that in a job posting, you know, I really am trying to impress upon this potential new employer applicant, um, that we have a set of values in our business and those values are probably linked to job expectations. So I'm probably expressing those. So, for example, if, um, you know, communication is a value in, at my practice, then I might be including in the job posting a note about that specifically, because now we've identified that from a job design perspective, skills and attributes, communication is central to success as an intake coordinator. And, of course, I'm going to tell people that they have to have a genuine interest in helping us build the practice. So I am looking for someone to join our practice who has a genuine interest in helping us expand and grow and serve more members of our community. through booking appointments through scheduling new intakes. I love

Julie Herres:

that. But how do you measure that in an interview? Like, because everyone will say, yes, I absolutely have a genuine interest in building the practice. Like, how do you know if they're truthful, if they actually can

Niki Ramirez:

do it? Yeah. So truthful, I think most, you know, and this is just me and how I approach employment and interviews. I think people mostly tell the truth, but they, you know, they're telling their most. Shiny version of the truth. Yes.

Julie Herres:

So the most beautiful part.

Niki Ramirez:

So they're like, yeah, of course, I'm super excited to help you build the practice. Um, so yeah, so their answer is yes, I can do that. And the key to the most effective screening in this case, then it's going to be to engage in a behavioral interview series. So, I, if I am looking for someone who gets excited about booking appointments and is excited about helping us expand and grow this practice, then I'm going to ask a question such as, you know, okay, Julie, you know, I'm so glad to hear that you're excited about helping us grow the practice. Tell me about a time that you were engaging in, you know, trying to book an appointment for your sales team at your last job. And then the person called and canceled. What did you do in follow up? Okay. So you, you know, as the, and I'm thinking about my receptionist again from the sales team, she booked the appointments for the sales team and then someone would call and cancel their appointment with the sales team and she would call them back and she would talk to them. And see if she could get them rebooked. So we didn't just let it fall off her job. Part of her job description was to follow up on canceled appointments. That was a task that she had. And that's part of nurturing relationships long term. And you know, this intake coordinator coordinator type role needs to be able to express to people that whether it's today or next week, or even a month down the road. We still want to hear from you. And so there, you know, so we, we want to ask people about their experiences dealing with, um, clients who seemed confused or didn't know what to select. You know, how did you help them make a final decision? Um, people that don't want to book, it's okay to ask them, you know, ask them a question too. So now what I've actually shifted to doing Julie is actually telling you about an ideal answer. Okay. So, so if I want someone on the phone, my intake coordinator who can. You know, seal the deal here and book this intake. I want someone on the phone who, when the client says, or the potential new client says, you know what, I guess I'm not really that interested that they have the wherewithal and it doesn't feel icky for them to say, Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry to hear that. Can you please tell me why? Yeah. So, you know, so there's a lot that goes into the skillset. There's a lot that goes into the day to day. Um, so for a practice owner, who's really trying to develop a successful intake coordinator position that does. Focus on, you know, sales component to the job design, you know, I think it would be really important for them to take a deep dive analysis into the job, um, duties, the tasks and how they have seen their team have success with intake and then build an interview process even around that. I think there's, you know, there's a lot of. Uh, work to do in the ecosystem to build a great intake coordinator position and then put the, you know, put your screening credentials and screening process together interview and finally select but. You know, it goes, I think, without saying, for between the two of us anyway, that for the intake coordinator role to really be successful and help a practice stabilize and or grow, we have to have someone who, on the phone, um, and in email communications is not shy about encouraging people to really, you know, book that appointment, don't, you know, don't cancel on us, come on back, you know, all that, we're really planting seeds for people to get the support that they deserve.

Julie Herres:

What I'm hearing from you also is, um, a respectful persistence, uh, so not, not, not someone who's pushy, but who's just respectfully going to say, but wait a second, what's actually going on, right? Or something along those lines. Yeah. Um, all right. I want to shift to, to, uh, another question I have for you. Typically in the industry, the intake coordinator is either hourly or salaried. So if we were hiring or trying to hire someone who's a lot more sales minded, how do you structure, how do you recommend that we structure that compensation?

Niki Ramirez:

Yeah. So when we have an intake coordinator position that we've determined, um, you know, is going to, we're going to talk about it, right? Like this is, there's a sales component to this job. It's okay. I would love to see some incentives built into the package. So whether a practice determines that they want to pay hourly or salaried, you know, what we'll want to do is say, okay, let's take that. Um, you know, the, the salary that someone might want to earn for a year and let's just like, peel that back a little bit and put a bonus structure in place or an incentive, you know, commission structure in place on top of it. So if I'm trying to. You know, hire an intake coordinator, and I believe that their salary or their income for the year might be 50, 000 dollars for the year. You know, maybe their salary is 40, 000 dollars. And on top of that, they have a potential to earn an additional 10, 000 dollars based on the number of intakes that they're able to book. Um, you know, there could there could be other. Components to an incentive program to, for example, the ability to call back and book previous clients, you know, at certain times, our clients practices will go on like recovery missions and just give a phone call to the people who haven't been back in a long time. So, maybe there are, it's not a brand new intake, but it's a returning client that they were able to encourage to return.

Julie Herres:

Got it. And I've done enough Q and a calls with you to know there's an asterisk always to the, uh, you know, the base salary that you have to look at your state. It depends on minimum wage and, and, and, and like Nikki and I do it Like, you have to check on the legalities, right? You can't just say, I'm going to give you 25, 000 a year plus a commission. Like there's in most places that will not fly. Um. But I do love that idea where there's, I think there's a financial reason to go and accomplish a thing that we want them to accomplish. Yeah,

Niki Ramirez:

I love that. Yeah. And, you know, I do take to heart that generally speaking in the medical industry, well, in the mental, mental health, medical industry, it's been sort of the common philosophy has been, we don't really want to incentivize people for, you know, booking or, you know, give people tons of commissions or incentives for providing mental health care, um, in other medical industries. That's the standard, like chiropractics. Yeah. Like that is a very big, you know, that's an anchor to the business model that the people who are doing the work there, they are earning some heavy incentives, you know, at large. And I think it's just because our mental health practitioners are so darn loving and caring, they're like, I just want to pay everyone all the money that we can. Why would we, why would we have to give bonuses? But it is common in other related industries. And I also, you know, just want to put it out there that as the workforce has continued to ebb and flow and grow and change over the years. Um, people are not shy anymore about saying how motivated they are by money. And now it's a much more, I feel like it's a much more open conversation where employees are coming to us and saying in HR and in business leadership, you know, thanks so much for this great hourly rate and salary and you know, it'd be great if I could earn some more money. I'd love to work hard for a bonus. It's just, yeah, maybe we've, maybe we've been raised this way. I don't know what it is, but yeah, I don't, I don't shy away from encouraging people to think about a little bit of a carrot in any industry for any job. And

Julie Herres:

in some ways I feel like that it is a gift for people to actually say that to you. And then you just, then you know, right, they don't want gifts. They don't want your words of affirmation or appreciation. They want cold, hard cash. And like, that's a good thing to know that this is the thing that's going to show them you appreciate them. Um, Nikki, I ask all of our podcast guests, what is your favorite business book and why?

Niki Ramirez:

My favorite business book for business adjacent, I'm an HR person. So my favorite business book is emotional agility by Susan David. Perfect. I use this book in conversations with leaders and employees, and it has really informed actually the way that I lead my team. So the subtitle is get unstuck, embrace change and thrive and work in life. And so I think that emotional agility, I mean, it's just such a fabulous framework to think about how to deal with adversity and it is the whole foundation of the book is you're going to go through some stuff. And you can get through it.

Julie Herres:

I love that. And that, that feels like a very Nikki answer to me also. I feel like that's very appropriate. Uh, Nikki, thank you so much for this conversation. You and your team work with many practice owners. So if a listener is interested in finding more about the work that you and your team do at HR answers, where can they find you?

Niki Ramirez:

Yeah. Yeah. We are on the web at HR answers. org, HR answers. org. And to find me on social media, you will find me on LinkedIn as Nikki Ramirez. So yeah, I would love to connect on LinkedIn. And if folks are looking for a little bit of extra HR support, we are here for that. Perfect. Thanks so much for your time today. Thanks for the invitation, Julie. It's been nice chatting with you.

The information contained in this podcast represents the host and guest general opinions and should not be construed as personalized accounting and tax advice. Listeners should consider all facts and circumstances before applying this information and seek appropriate advice from an accountant, financial planner, lawyer, or other professional. Any info provided does not constitute accounting, tax, or legal advice.